THU Book Club – The American Revolution of 1800 :Chapter 8

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dances in is on the line dan is the the
author of the new book the American Revolution 1800
and which I I helped edit and has my name on the
cover to dance the principal author this book I is also the distinguished professor of
American history in the revolution coming our way at the Thom Hartmann
University on the banks of the Potomac and an
adjunct faculty member at the Eastern Washington University where he teaches the history technology
the engineering department and we are so pleased to have East and
West Washington University helping the liver professors a sin to us server
welcome back hello there tell a day and so chapter
eight is the final chapter in the book the American Revolution have 1800 and lots and this is this is our time
hartman book club above the you don’t work for we’ve been
going through one chapter a time every weekend and here’s the last chapter and what what events occurred in 1800
that made not only Jefferson and Madison but also the federalist realize that this election a Thomas
Jefferson over John Adams and and others was actually a
revolution as opposed to simply on an election well are you have to go back to I’m what we’ve been talking about now
for weeks and weeks and that is there were no such political parties
there was never a precedent in human history and wishin election overturned
administration and so all of a sudden we have a attired electoral college between Thomas
Jefferson Aaron Burr and as 65 both apiece and there’s no resolution Jefferson tries to
find burn service mashin and he won’t respond and he’s rumored to
be in north carolina de Niese rumored to be
in New England and the he will not respond by letter or by any
messenger which would be the tower the the best
kind the communications in those days and so they start to realize that
something is afoot meanwhile there’s all these rumors
better starting to circulate throughout the country especially among
the leadership class and the rumors had to do with things
like the senate was mean to form a special committee it which they were going to elect a
president which would have been unconstitutional right and there were all kinds are
rumors about the federalist will aim to prevent an
election a new president because they want to
have something called an interregnum and where they were willing to do was to
let the authority and John Adams expire on March 4th 1801 in which there would
be no executive through her make any order or to execute
the laws and so then they would for your appoint a committee or a person like the Chief Justice or a
select committee from the senate to be able to do that and the Chief
Justice’s a federalists and thus in the Sun it was controlled essentially by
federalists or people to loot so basically what we
would call conservatives today so these conservatives were essentially willing
to say if we can’t get a conservative president
if we can get you know would who is their candidate
who are they promoting well it would depend on who you were
saying Hamilton who had been the leader the fareless have been promoting Charles
pick me in when take the came in third in the
very near 4th army he realize the game was up but he
had squandered his leadership ability and me more extreme federalist we’re now
beginning to negotiate and we hear this kind of talking or even today between the senate the executive branch
and show basically there were saying you know Jefferson I’m we might be
willing to vote for your but your gonna have to guarantee they’re all a federal his policies are
going to be held in place in your gonna keep our friends in office and bush’s kiowa you know john Payne
urges said you know job Raja say that he’s going to voor a Keystone XL pipeline bill proves
that he’s not willing to work with us so that writer eitan and so what we’re
looking at are the preconditions for a situation
that could turn pretty ugly and on time just like it did in 1800 menso when when we even go further into this well we find
out is that the high federalist began to say
that they were gonna vote for burner a Hamilton was no longer a major player
at this point and their court their point man was a guy’s
name James Baird from Delaware who was respected by everybody and he was going around talking through
all the emissaries from the republicans which represented jefferson’s and medicines you point and then well
we’re we’re looking at is that the republicans
decided that they’re gonna have to respond to
this and so basically they say we’re not gonna cans gear consent to
anything that is not constitutional right the
republicans by the way being the Democratic Republicans at that time
what we did a call the Democratic Party as and really the the progressives are
the liberals above the day party other people right
and we must remember that the federalists were elitist they were the wealthy right they were
the ones who controlled everything from the time the government was founded and they were
in a state of shock by the events that unfolded because
Jason was not one of them that’s right is exactly right he
resigned in fact a Secretary of State sorry go back to
Monticello and think about all this her and so I’m here we are air the there’s detention keeps mounting and
and other meetings are being held everywhere
and the republicans are saying freemen are not going to accept
usurpation even for one moment so they have this big conference in which I’m or whatever the measure are players he decides that he’s going to
stop I’m everything in its tracks in every
and all of a sudden you have unanimity on the part other jeffersonian that they
have to really seriously do something about this and so then jefferson’s as well this is reaching a
point where no return we can just make this claim in
and go back on it it’s not subject to negotiation so I’m
gonna visit the president eyes days and ask him personally I is he willing to jeopardize that
there’s going to be violence in Prosser Bligh civil war so Adams goes to the white house and
goes to see his old friend John M Jackson does the white house in season
right now right answer he shocked to find out that Annan’s is determined
to keep the Navy he wants to keep the tax policies he
wants to keep the financial policies and he’s telling Jefferson you have to
do this or we’re not gonna do anything about it and Jefferson by
the way at that point I’m was vice president John Adams was in a
that’s right ensure compliance so and so then work the this advance team to overtake both the
man and the the leaders in both parties all
the sudden it becomes people began to realize
there’s over a hundred thousand people who have her gathered in Washington DC on what is now the it
lifts to the mall and there’d camped out you know and
they’re angry and they’re both separatists and relative to the day’s
population that would be like five or ten million people today well
there’s only five thousand permanent population Washington DC at this time box you all of a sudden you realize you
got twenty times in member people there right and threatening the lives that
Congress meant throwing stones against they had to clear this the Republican dominated I’m Hausa for students a.m.
how’s about the legislature because somebody had threatened like it
was a terrorist attack like a bomb they were threatening to shoot people
and so all of a sudden there was a panic disorder gripped the air s not just in Washington DC we also find
out that there were I’m twenty-two thousand
men that had formed a militia and the
governor Pennsylvania was leading them on a march toward
Washington DC we find out that there’s twelve thousand
people in Virginia who have been are station you know on
emergency alert and they got a Currier horseback going from Washington DC to
Richmond every four hours to tell them where they should march on Washington all the armories in Charleston South
Carolina and Philadelphia and New York City have been sees and the guns rifles were
given out to jeffersonian supporters all of a sudden in Baltimore there’s a
group this for me over 10,000 people and the realization begins to hit
everybody that we are now looking at civil war and its gonna happen any
hour if we continue along this line its and
meanwhile you know this is a now they by leakers
say well the revolution is on and Jefferson calls
for an immediate Constitutional Convention so they can’t decide what the future’s
going to be of okay and on that cliffhanger we will be back which and sister just a
few minutes dances in the author I love the American Revolution up 1800 edited
by Thom Hartmann and available now and book stores near
you stick around we’ll be right back to martin university book club on the air this is the Thom Hartmann program the book is the American Revolution %uh
1800 by Kansas and we’ll be right back so Dan we’re on the verge of civil war because the the Electoral College vote
for president is tied between Jefferson and birdland there
right that’s right okay so what who is James
Baird and what role did he play in preventing
the Civil War well James their turns out to be very interesting guy and he is rather well respected leaders among the
federalist is from Delaware and his or her caucus
leader and he’s a person that everybody seems
to have good faith in is also a lawyer on a constitutional law expert Connor
you know kirk personal we see today who describes
himself as a constitutionalist and I’m he has integrity so he sorta
like ever dirksen maybe I would say that yet you know i i
conservative wes is some integrity yeah and and memorabilia I think that
there’s a Republican Minority Leader a later on really I can’t remember his
name right now but he risk a similar kinda guy who everybody
would listen to and record bring about some kind OVA attention
compromise even and show he became the sort a front man
who would negotiate with Jefferson’s primary negotiators and he was the first one who showed any
inclination to I’m softened the message that the
hard core federalist were giving everybody at
that time and he suggested that Jefferson at least
accept in principle some continuity at the old federal system well Jefferson reply to this that he was elected by the
people and would be unbecoming to him and two
freemen for him to go into office making any
concessions the rear this is the second time that this is occurred and so bear goes back and Baird is
trying to make up his mind other hot the hike or federalist at this
point decide that Hamilton’s candidate cannot
be retrieves and they hate Jefferson to
such a degree if they’re willing to vote for Burger
and the problem was that Burke could not be found Burwood not appear to defend himself really give his views
or to be involved in any count while I was that was he afraid of I mean he ultimately was shot to death
by Hamilton as you for example like that well that’s why the gray areas but that
was in the future at this point I think that BER was a a
candidate who want to be drafted and was willing to become president and
the interesting thing about all this is it in these negotiations both
Jefferson and Madison are constantly looking for a
constitutional solution to this problem right edge everything is on record as
telling bayard that he would be willing to accept the
position as vice president for the next four years the one that he had just been
serving under Annan’s if he could preserve the Constitution
and so he’s appealing to a guy who is Rick who is a self-styled
constitutionalist and said it’s the Constitution and the republic
that are inseparable is the Constitution which protects
everybody and it’s what I understand my colleagues to be doing is willing to sacrifice the Constitution to put a guy like burger into office who
won’t even appear to defend himself forgiveness pews this is insanity and so he says I’m
going to break with the party and I’m in a fashion I’m going to defend the constitution so he announces this in
a meeting and he is immediately threatened and he
says I don’t care I’m willing to sacrifice my career and
homemade honey I thought right there dan pull
that off there we will be right back with dancers in word weird creeping right up by the edger
revolution in 1800 the book the American Revolution 1800 by Kansas stick around 20 minutes past good fine fasho welcome back so 1800 the
election is happening at the Aaron Burr and Thomas Jefferson are tied
in the number of electoral votes they have the there are malicious coming in from
around the country there’s there’s a hundred thousand people in Washington DC
throwing stones at members of congress and at their their where the country is
literally on the brink of civil war and James Baird who is one of the
leaders at the federalists one of the conservative leaders the sides this is nuts you know we can’t
have a a civil war eine we’ve only been a
country for a couple decades we gotta do something so where do we go
from here D damn okay so I’m when you have a a.m. is
characteristic have a party that if they can give the
appearance that unanimity I even despite factions within the party
in this is what we see today even with factions controlling large portions
of the republican party that their are you among themselves and
that Baird is the one person who can resolved the problem he can desert and when he deserves and takes
delaware with them as well as Maryland he changes the numbers at the electoral
votes and gives Jefferson the constitutional
majority that he needed which was night birds and so it in a
sense its anti-climactic once this man makes
the proper decision the constitutional decision but at the same Ahmed you have to
realize they are system is almost geared so that he can bring
these factions Inc competition with one other right up to
the very edge have a civil war or revolution we see
that happening Civil War course yeah a so this is it seems to me this is one of america’s blessings is
that where Karen O in the final analysis win we
have to really say we’re going to overthrow the
Constitution we come to our senses and we say we can’t do this and we have to abide by
the rules loss yeah there is a way ice now I often when
you read history from the Revolutionary era and the you
know the first three decades thereafter arm you hear about party here about
faction but rarely is faction described I think
most people do don’t know even with the word faction means are certainly met
back in that day and what the analogy is to today what’s
your understanding evolves well my belief is that are we having
departed one way up from the politics in the early republic if we look at our political system today
NBC the various groups that make up the political party in his
on both sides at different times we can identify some others group says
factions whose interest is solely in there own
concerns about power and not in the interest of a majority at the community
center not talking about weather gonna do is
good for the nation where they’re talking about is what
there is gonna do that will advance the power the political party that they
represent we haven’t gotten away from that one bit and I’m the founders you know equated
party with faction and oh and the historians and political
scientists I believe have made an artificial distinction
between party and faction that doesn’t really
exist because I think the founders had a much better take on it and they were
able to discern what the true direction a party or
faction wise in terms of how the people were acting
in terms adventurous they we don’t make those distinctions
anymore we just plan we talk about well the party does this is the party does
that but it doesn’t get us into a deeper analysis and I think the founders were a lot more
sophisticated a about their understand a politics the
other thing is you know we’ve been just in the last five minutes going
through all these these militias coming to washington the huge crowds the threat
in life for congressman I’m these are things that are totally
absent from the description in any history this you wanna finger it’s written in
our time right i mean the that the Chinese that I
think they’re just blind I think that they would like to believe
that america is gonna has gone onward and upward
throughout its entire history always to a greater realization or
greater achievement and they don’t care what happened they don’t want to miss at mighty the waters or give I mean I i
reject him I read because book on john adams and
you know it at the end of that book there’s maybe forty pages where he’s just
mercilessly trashing Jefferson the dimensions any the stuff yes even
mention a revolution in 1800 priorities makeup I mean both was those books are probably the
best sellers the american public doesn’t have any idea about the commitment to
revolution that they’re the jeffersonian said made
run its release a war that we damn near had a civil war in 1800 and then Thomas Jefferson say the
Republic that’s right hand when you look at the people at that time who are the
leaders even in the Federalist Party I mean why
the great clothes that i think is marvelous is jewish cavett minnie’s he says is
about three weeks to a month after as ever since takes office he says is a
new england says we’re all tranquil here as they say in Paris after a revolution
being Adams recognize it as the nerd a change
in stance a people robber troops who was a a and operative
in the fred was party says democracy has made a marvelous revolution in the public mood Matthew
Davis who was another federal is operative and he saying that
the revolution of eighteen hundred calls it that suggested them it was the overthrow the
federal federal party right a job as a close
call to yeah and and even Mike Fisher Ames who is probably
the most volatile writer the period he says this is in any little
change to the cabinet seen he says this is a great moral revolution
and Hamilton himself i mean the Great Architect you know the Washington years and even partly arabs a within six months what have what it is
writing every fan was insane we have to adopt the way said Jefferson
use utilize to seize power in this country mean I’ll
is a yeah is popular Zimbra is also a
politics a revolution Anitra and what is the one who really
recognizes higher his big he was attacking Adams the whole time
totally oblivious to be blinded by his own power and influence to see what was going on but even he
comes in down in season it’s a revolution while
of gas so the revolution I’ve the American Revolution have 1800 was
actually a genuine revolution we damn near had a civil war we we’d my
really really wet from big becoming a a hard right wing country to be in a very
progressive liberal democracy absolutely with battle
excessive f/k/a that okay to book is the American
Revolution 18 under the author dances in that that week we’ve gone all the way
through the books I hope has been useful for you now to get a copy enjoyed an
thanks so much for being with us absolutely Tom great time is great i
mean they’re in great working with won’t do it again okay guy thanks 10
will be back

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