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Book Club Discussion – Jab Jab Jab Right Hook by Gary Vaynerchuk

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(upbeat music) – Welcome to this week’s episode of our Aviation Marketing podcast. I’m Paula Williams. – And I’m John Williams. – And we are ABCI. And ABCI’s mission is– – To help ladies and gentlemen out there, in the aviation world, sell
more products and services. – Absolutely. Today we are doing a book club. – Yes we are. – With one of our favorite, I guess, new favorite authors.
(laughing) Didn’t use to be one of my favorites, I had kind of a prejudice against this guy to begin with, just because of
the way he presents himself, but I have grown to appreciate
his style a little bit more. – And his background, and
his thoughts on today’s… – Exactly. So before we reveal
who that is. (laughing) (laughing)
That’s okay. Before we reveal who that is. Okay, we’ll reveal who that is. (laughing)
This is Gary Vaynerchuk and the book “Jab, Jab, Jab, Right Hook”.
– Right. – “How to Tell Your Story
in a Noisy Social World.” Of course we talk about this with our book club facilitator,
and our kid, Mickey Gaminal. It’s a really fun conversation,
so we’ll get into that, but before we do. A cardinal rule at ABCI is,
no random acts of marketing, and most of the problems
we see with social media are that you can have
an unplanned strategy and unmeasured implementation. It’s just so easy that it’s
easy to just start doing stuff without really thinking it through. If you’re wondering how you
can get all those metrics, and numbers, that we keep harping on and see how much you’re paying
for each social channel, and how much value each
campaign is generating, it’s really important to have a system to keep track of all that stuff. We’re using SharpSpring as our CRM and we’ve installed it for
a few aviation clients. One of the cool things is that
you can run an advertisement on social media, on
Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, or run a post on one of those channels and see how many leads
you receive from it, and how much each of those
opportunities is worth. A system like SharpSpring can really help. Of course any software is only as good as the data you put into it. With our Aviation Lead Generator program we bundle the SharpSpring CRM
with our famous ABCI service. The nice thing about tracking social media is that it’s mostly automatic. Someone visits your Facebook page and then goes to your website,
and then fills out a form, and then gets a checklist or an ebook, and then opens a few of your emails, and eventually buys from you. Generally he won’t even remember that he found you on Facebook, and you certainly won’t
remember that either. Bob Seger says rock
and roll never forgets, but we’re saying that
software never forgets. We do all the configuring, we
connect it to your website, we set up your campaigns, and so on, so that it starts
collecting data right away. And the longer you use it,
the better the data will be, because we do have long
sales cycles in aviation, and sometimes a person you
meet today, at an event, or a person that see’s an ad
on your Facebook page today, might not become a customer
until eight months later. So a system like our
lead generator becomes more and more valuable over time. You can check out the details at www.abci1.com/leadgenerator. Thanks for joining us. Let’s jump into our book club. – Cool. – So welcome back to ABCI’s book club. Today we are discussing Gary Vaynerchuk’s “Jab, Jab, Jab, Right Hook.” “How to Tell Your Story
in a Noisy Social World”. Before we start, go ahead and let me know your initial thoughts. We’ll start with Mom. – Okay. I like Gary V, in spite of myself, I think.
(laughing) (laughing) I think he’s a
little rough around the edges and I would like for people to… dress up, be prepared, show some
respect to their clients and their customers, and Gary V is like the
complete opposite of that, but I like him anyway. Because he is so real
and he is so himself, and he is so authentic to what he does. And “Jab, Jab, Jab, Right Hook” I think, did a really good job of explaining… his method of give, give,
give, give, give, then ask, instead of always, always
asking, which is the… He’s trying to break a pattern, by establishing a new pattern,
which takes a lot of guts for somebody who is so
new to the scene, I guess. Speaking as an old timer,
you know, there you go. (laughing) – No, fair enough, fair enough. Cool. What about you John, what do you think? – I think, in one word, and not to take away from what Paula said, but I call it refreshing. – Okay. – Refreshing honesty, refreshing non-BS? – Yeah. He’s pretty straightforward
in what he says and like Dan, you can’t
really argue with it. You may not like his
style, but there it is. – Like Dan Kennedy? – Mm-hmm. – Yeah. – Right, yeah. It’s funny because we’ve just
reviewed Dan Kennedy’s book, “The Ultimate Marketing Plan”, and in that book it was… jarring, you know, was one
of those statements I used when reviewing the book, is just very finite statements of this is how it will be, this is how it will be. And Gary Vaynerchuk does kind
of follow the same method. He definitely writes his book like he’s writing commandments. In this case they’re presented as rounds of a boxing match. – Right, right.
– There’s 12 rounds and all that sort of thing. But it’s still very much
like, “This is the final word “on this topic.” (laughs) “And you can take it or
leave it, but I’m right.” (laughing) – Yeah.
– And he’s like, you gotta envy, like I
mean shoot, you know, if you’re gonna write a book
that you want more than one person to read, you gotta
believe that you have something that more than one person needs to hear. I think Gary Vaynerchuk
really believes in himself and his statements throughout. One thing that I personally
liked about the book is that it does talk about,
specifically Twitter, Facebook, Instagram. And you can see on the book cover, it has Google+, LinkedIn, Tumblr,
Pinterest, Vine and Snapchat. It has all of these
social media platforms. And he treats them all as
though they’re some sort of a obstacle to overcome for your business. I think that’s great, cast a wide net and all that sort of thing. But he does also zero in on
how to find the proper clients within each platform, which
I think is also beneficial. But again, this is another book, just like “The Ultimate Marketing Plan”, where maybe it’s just
too much, it’s too broad, too much information for
anybody to really go out and create some sort of a marketing plan. – Right.
– Add in my opinion. – So it was–
(laughing) good.
– I got a quote from this book too. (laughs) – All right, go for it. Hit it, hit us with the quote.
– So this is… This quote is, actually, talks to Gary and his approach, his style, and this is under… oh I don’t know, page 86, under a Pile of Colors,
Span Your Universe. Anyway, several paragraphs down in there, and you know, the dot dot dot, he says, “Fortunately
there’s a book available “that offers detailed explanations of “why and how Twitter
can be one of businesses “most powerful customer service tools. “It’s my last book ‘The
Thank You Economy’. “Read it. “Good.”
(laughing) And his asterisk behind it says, “How’s that for a right hook?” (laughs) (laughing) – Great. We did review “The Thank You
Economy” earlier this year. – Yeah, I know, but what I’m saying is, this pretty much, tells you about him and how
he approaches marketing. – Mm-hmm. (laughing) That is true. I think my favorite
thing about the book was he had a better explanation,
I’ve always struggled with trying to help people
understand the difference between a native and a non-native ad. It’s not an easy concept to grasp, but there’s actually a page, and I don’t have the page
number in front of me, but there is a page where
he has illustrations, and I’m gonna put this
in the video for this and we’ll put the page
number in the notes, illustrations of native
versus non-native ads in some of the media, and
he shows, for example, there’s, a non-native ad
is an ad that looks like it was pulled out of a magazine
and stuck into Facebook. So the page size is wrong, it’s got a complete
advertisement kind of a situation that comes out of an advertising textbook. That is a non-native ad. A native ad is where you have
a tweet from Cookie Monster where he’s tweeting about
something that he’s doing, and it shows just a
picture of Cookie Monster, and you have to read
the comments underneath to get the gist of the ad. It kind of forces itself into the mode, or into the media so it doesn’t break the screen, you know, and say, “I’m an ad.” It says, “I am a Facebook
post from the Cookie Monster”, and then you have to read the
post from the Cookie Monster to find out that it is an ad. That was, yeah. – I completely agree. When I was reading, ’cause
he does, he has examples at the end of each round–
– Yeah. – of ads that he approves of,
and he makes the statement that, you know, this is just
him, garnering his approval. It’s not necessarily, it
brought in X amount of sales or Y amount of sales or what have you. It’s just things that he thinks work and things that he thinks doesn’t. It made me think of,
okay, so a non-native ad would be if you set up some
sort of a telecommuter device where they call in, and
they start saying a picture, they start saying, “Three by
five, it’s the beach at sunset “and there’s Corona, in
a man and woman’s hand.” You’re not going to answer that phone, you’re not going to like
(laughs) that message to impact your ear drum
because you’re like, first off, this is a computer,
this is clearly a computer. Secondly, they’re talking about something that is completely unrelated to me, to sell something that I have no interest in buying right now. It’s, you know, so, um… cringy, you know, it’s so awkward and forced, and that’s one thing that he’s
really trying to prevent is, if you’re going to create,
say, a Pinterest post you should make sure that it
resonates with your audience. You should look at what
your audience is looking at, before you go through
and create your post. You shouldn’t just say,
X amount of dollars off, because even though discounts do sell, there’s a right and a wrong
way to market those discounts. If you’re marketing it the wrong way, you could just be wasting time. At the end of the day, it’s kind of what marketing is all about, is getting as many customers as you can, for as little time as possible. – Right.
– So you know, a lot of that comes from targeting but with social media
those targets are kind of broadly painted. You have all of Facebook at your disposal but if you go in and
look at Facebook groups, or if you go in and look at Instagram groups, there is a difference between
the way Facebook users and Instagram users communicate. Even if they’re the same person, I won’t– – Yes.
– leave the same comment on an Instagram picture that I would leave on a Facebook picture. – Yes.
– Just because of knowing the area that I’m
in, the platform that I’m on. – Right, that makes total sense. Because you go to Facebook, as an example, I never go to Facebook for
work, if I can help it, unless I’m setting up an ad or whatever, but as a consumer I go to Facebook to be amused and entertained, and maybe to socialize. If I see a post from Cookie Monster, I want to be entertained
when I’m on Facebook, so of course I’m gonna read that. If I see something that looks like an ad, I’m gonna skip right over it, because that’s not what I’m here for. I’m not here to shop, I’m
here to be entertained. Same thing with LinkedIn, I
think if you break the mindset, people will skip over it. I go to LinkedIn to network,
and if I see something that is too funny, or too frivolous, or too… out there on Facebook, I’ll skip over it, because I think it’s not
appropriate for this media. This is not what I’m here for, right? – Yeah. No, absolutely. I think you get yourself
into a frame of mind when you open those apps, whether consciously or sub-consciously, you’re saying to yourself, “Oh, I want to see what’s going
on in Snapchat right now.” And if you see something
that shouldn’t be going on, on Snapchat, you’re
automatically just gonna skip over it, so–
– Yeah. Look’s like AstroTurf. (laughs) – Exactly. (laughs) – Yeah. You asked a question
I think, in the group, which I thought was a really good one, and that was, should
you be on every channel? That kinda feeds from that
question into, you know, of course, Gary’s opinion
is that yes you should, to be doing everything, with
everybody, all the time, ’cause it’s free, so why not? – Yeah. Yeah, I know, and I
think he’s got a point. I think for somebody who’s brand
new, starting off business, shoot your shot, man. Personally I’d never been on Twitter. I’d seen Twitter posts on
my Facebook or on Instagram, but I’d never physically
been on Twitter, or Tumblr, the website itself. And I hadn’t been on Pinterest in years. But I reactivated my accounts and threw a couple of ads out
there, just kind of to see, but really what I’m trying
to do at this point, is trying to consume more of that media, and kind of see what’s going on on there, and see if it’s something worthwhile. Just like reading these books, being educated on these platforms comes from interacting on them, and seeing what goes on around you. So I’m trying to get a better feel for it. Pinterest sounds great,
especially for me as a tutor, like, oh, mom’s, there’s gotta
be a million moms out there who make their kids lunches
that have nine grams of amino protein or X, Y or Z. But they’re dying to get
their kid to pass math, and that’s not happening. And I’m like, oh, well that’s
my market man, let me in. That’s where I want to be.
(laughing) But figuring out how to target that and what device to target that, takes a little bit of research. I’m happy I read it, but
I don’t feel prepared to make that step just yet. It’s definitely something
that I want to look through and–
– Right, right. – So, I agree that knowing
about all of your social media is important. Whether you have an active following on each social media or not, I think that’s really up for debate. You can spend 20 minutes
on your Facebook a day, and still have a very successful Facebook. But we don’t, (laughs) as humans, these things give us
endorphins and serotonin levels and, you know, we get consumed. That’s the whole point
of these social media’s, they kind of take over your being, and you spend all your time looking at what everybody else is up to. – One more cat video, right? (laughs) – (laughs) Exactly, exactly. I think it’s great to
know about everything, and it’s great to spend a little
bit of time on everything, however you just gotta be aware of what you’re spending it on. – Yeah, and I think having the discipline, he kinda talks about this in the book, but what we do with our clients is we like to do a 90 day test, for a social media that they want to try, and that they’ve found
their competitors are on it, their most wanted customers are on it. Okay, well let’s do a 90 day
test, and that’s long enough to see if it’s actually
going to have an impact. If you start generating
some activity and interest and things like that, and it is short enough
that you’re not wasting a ton of resources, if it is a bad fit, and then you can always move
onto the next one and say, “You know what, Instagram
isn’t working for us. “Let’s try Pinterest.” And it may be just a
slightly different angle that’s gonna work better for you. – How about you John,
you got any thoughts… on that stuff, on social media marketing? – The only thing is, would be to ascertain where your customers and competitors are, that’s where you need to be. – Yeah, I like that. Two steps, A, where is everybody at. B, how do I get there? (laughs) (laughing) – Right. And don’t just blare out your
same ad on all five channels if it’s not gonna resonate well, and if it’s not gonna do well. – Yeah, no, he does a great job. I mean he cusses out Jeep
or, you know, he (laughs) all these major brands.
– Yeah. – He’s like, “Smirnoff
should be ashamed (laughs) and stuff like that, for not speaking the native
language of the platform that they’re advertising on. I think that’s great, you know,
I think that’s really good. Just like, if you were to take an ad out in Thrasher versus if you’re
going to take an ad out in… – The Wall Street Journal. – The Wall Street Journal,
and then Men’s Health, you have these three, and
you make them all the same. It doesn’t matter how
good your product is. It doesn’t matter how good your copy is. If it’s not created for that demographic, it’s gonna fall short. It may get sales but it’s not going to reach
it’s fullest capability. – All right.
– Right. – So, yeah, I think a lot of marketing, I mean, just basically
from what I’ve read, a lot of marketing comes
from knowing your audience, and I thought that was,
– Yeah. – that was really insightful. I think this book makes
a really good point, using very clearcut examples. – True. What’s really interesting is
you could take the same offer, and it might appeal to
Men’s Health, and Thrasher, and Wall Street Journal readers, that same offer, but you want to make it
completely different style of a presentation. So every ad has a list offer
and a presentation, right. Your offer might be exactly the same, but your list is very different, so your presentation has
to be very different. That make sense?
– Nice. – So, you know, Smirnoff vodka, okay, everybody drinks vodka, but in saying that you
have 47 flavors of vodka, and I’m just making stuff
up right now, I don’t know. but in Men’s Health you
can say, you know what, you can have light cocktails,
using whatever, you know… – Right, it’s gonna be a mixer,
it’s not gonna be the vodka, but still,
– Yeah. – they would be acknowledging something different.
– Yeah. So here’s a bunch of
recipes for light cocktails, and then in Thrasher magazine it’s just… alcohol full (laughs)
– Right. (laughs) Right. (laughs)
– You’re crazy. (laughs) – And in The Wall Street Journal you’d have three different
recipes for cocktails that are prestigious and
fabulous, so, you know. – Right, yeah. Yeah, exactly. (laughs) Get drunk, do kick flips versus, you know–
– Impress your colleagues and clients with–
– the proper Manhattan. – Yeah.
– Exactly. (laughs) Probably wouldn’t go as well on Thrasher. I really like that statement, that people need to be catered to, ’cause God knows as soon
as they’re your customer you’re bending over backwards. You’re doing whatever you can to get them. So before that, a little bit of insight into what they want to
see is probably necessary. – Right. – John, you got any other
quotes on this one, or we good? – (laughs) No quotes. That’s just pretty much… And I like Gary, I like his style. That’s very refreshing, because he… He just has a new approach. He may not have refined
it, like it should be yet, but he’s got a new approach. – I like the format of the book, and John or Mickey, you might wanna show, you’ve got mine John, but it’s very, very
visual, and it’s in color, and it’s printed really nicely. I was surprised because Gary Vaynerchuk is so un-glossy. And this is a really, really,
well printed, beautiful, fabulous book, with great examples and illustrations, and everything else in it. – Yeah. I think that’s one thing
that he did really well is, he would write this
whole page about this ad, and then you’ll go over the ad, and you can see very specifically, “Oh, this is what he means that’s wrong.” – Yeah. Super visual, which is really nice. – Yeah, and then also at
the end of the chapter he has kinda statements. I remember I wrote this
in the group as well. This one’s for Tumblr, but essentially this is the questions you should ask yourself
before posting for each media. I think that that’s very practical. I thought that was really good. – Yeah. And those were good questions, not just for Tumblr, but
for any ad, you know, is this the best we can do? Is this the best visual we
can get to make this point? I think that’s a good checklist that should be on the wall, of
everybody who does marketing. – Absolutely. I completely agree. Two major things that stood out to me, from this particular book, were, one, he stated that in most of your posts, you should have your logo there, ’cause your profile picture’s
not gonna get clicked on. If you have your logo, they’ll at least
acknowledge that you exist, they’ll probably at least see, if they look at your post, for more than a couple of seconds, they’ll see who it’s from. – Yeah.
– Which is less likely if you don’t have a logo on it. – Exactly.
– And the other one was, make sure that your links work. (laughs) – (laughs) Yeah, you’d think.
– Something everybody’s guilty of. We’ve all gone on there and
like, “Hey, this is funny”, click, you know, and then
you figure it goes out to the info sphere, and
you never see it again. But yeah, that’s something
that even massive companies, these are examples from
Walmart, or, I think Smirnoff was the example. Smirnoff didn’t go anywhere,
you clicked the link, or Lululemon was great. And this was on Tumblr, which is, Tumblr is an internet-friendly site, where people are on Tumblr
to be on the internet all day long, and the link
didn’t go anywhere so, you look at this awesome post, and it’s a really beautiful infographic that’s totally native to Tumblr, where you follow from point A, which is “Do you want leggings?” It says, “Are you a traveler,
a daredevil, an expert, “a heat-seeker, or a nature lover?” Which is something that
anybody who’s scrolling through the internet is like,
“Hmm, which one am I?” (laughing) And then it goes all
the way through, like, 30 different questions for each one, and then there’s no
link, you know, (laughs) there’s no way to like, once you decide, “Ah, I need the yoga mat 3000”,
there’s no way to get it. (laughing) Now you have to go and try to figure out, “Well, I’m a daredevil “so I probably have better
things to do, (laughing) “than look for the yoga mat 3000”. It was good, it was a
good amount of levity. He does, he calls out the big
dogs, so I appreciate that. Because they do, they
crap on us all the time. We think about, you know,
advertisements from Budweiser or Old Spice, where they miss the mark and we don’t agree with
what they had to say, and he acknowledges the
fact that there’s probably a good percentage of people who notice when they’re being neglected, and you might as well put in that little bit of extra effort. I mean Lululemon, add a link
to your (laughs) picture. You probably paid some graphic designer a significant amount of money for, to–
– To get you 90% of the way to a sale, you know, and then drop. – (laughs) Right.
– 90% of the way across the river, and then
drop you in, you know. – Exactly. I mean, for me, if I went
through that whole infographic, I was like, “Well, I guess I’ll look “for the yoga mat 3000
at Goodwill.” (laughs) – Right.
– Simple. – Exactly, you’re off
to Amazon or someplace where you know you can find it, because you know what you want but– (laughing) – And I think there’s a lot to be said for funneling sales to your demographic. For me, when I come into
contact with other tutors, I really wish
(sound breaking up) because I know that the
more people who are going to Kumon, Mathnasium, Sylvan, the more people that will
come to get private tutoring. The more people that are
getting private tutors from other areas, or are
going to come to other areas for private tutoring. I recognize that these industries
work as a collaboration. And Lululemon, the more
yoga mats that are sold, I’m sure you see something
affecting your bottom line, I’m sure you’re getting more
money at the end of the day. But, you might as well cash
in on those early prospects. – Absolutely. – So. Yeah.
– Good point. – How did you guys feel, do
we got a general thumbs us, thumbs down? – Thumbs up from me. – I’d say thumbs up. – I’d say this is one of
the top three of the year. I think it was really well done. It was a really good book. – Yeah, I agree. I think it’s really relatable. Like say I give this to, I’m totally honest, because
we get so many books, we get 12 books a year, I think it’s good to give
’em out to your networks and I’m probably gonna give
this one to my boxing coach ’cause it’s got a boxing reference. But I know, I can hand it to him and say, “Hey, maybe you want to read
the chapter on Facebook?” Because he’s a boxer and
everything like that, and uses Instagram and his
Facebook for a link to his fans. I can say, “Look at these chapters” and just be very specific
when I hand it off, as opposed to other books
where they’re either, A, a complete and total work
of, you have to read A to B because it goes in order, or you know, something else where there’s
just too much information. It’s very… organized, very well organized. – I totally hope all of our clients are handing these books out
to their networks as well. I mean, they really should
be helping your network, and books are a wonderful
way to connect with people. There’s the story about
Abraham, or not Abraham Lincoln, it was the… Ben Franklin, he wanted to
make friends with somebody who was notoriously unfriendly, I think it was somebody
in France, you know, he was the ambassador to France, he borrowed a book from this
person, and at that time, books were so expensive
and everything else, that borrowing a book was a big deal. But he knew that if he
asked this guy for a favor, then that made this
connection between them. It’s not always about giving, you know, this is Gary Vaynerchuk, this is not always about give. Also, if you ask somebody for a favor, borrow a book, or ask if you
can borrow one of their books, that is just a super way
to connect with people. Because then you end
up talking about ideas. – Yeah, I’m pretty sure that’s
from “The 48 Laws of Power”, I remember reading that story too.
– Okay. (laughing) You remember that one. Cool, we’ll have to find the reference and fill in the details,
’cause I’m a little fuzzy on it but that was a good story. – Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, go out there and give value. A lot of the podcasts
I listen to are very, at the end of ’em it’s all like, “Just go give value.”
– Yep. And the more books you have,
and the more books you’ve read, the more value you can give, right? – Exactly. – Cool. Cool, well done.
– Cool. Good job everybody. Yeah, thanks for joining
us, and good luck. – All right. (laughs) (upbeat music)

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